Joe also shares his personal experience in the B2B sector as LGBTQ+ member and gives tips on how he brings it up to his colleagues. To hear more about inclusion and diversity, you can check out his Keynote session at Ignite USA here! https://vimeo.com/559144729
You can also DM him on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-taiano/
1. Hi Joe, thanks for joining me today! Before we really get into it, you’ve mentioned before that diversity and inclusion are actually two very different things. Can you please just give us an overview of what the differences are, and how the two interact with one another?
Sure, thanks for having me. As you know, diversity and inclusion has become a buzzword and is referred to in different ways. Some say Diversity and Inclusion, others use the term DEI (Diversity, Equity & Inclusion, and others are starting to bring in the term belonging. Whatever you call it, the terms tend to be used interchangeably but they actually mean very different things.
Diversity refers to a number; so having different groups represented such as race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. Inclusion on the other hand is a behaviour. Making people feel safe, heard, valued, and creating a sense of belonging. The easiest way to describe it is if you were having a dinner party, diversity is represented by who is at your table and inclusion would be making sure everyone feels welcome, heard, and seen at your party.
At Accenture we flip the term and say Inclusion & Diversity. We lead with inclusion because we believe you need to have a culture of inclusion in order for diversity to flow. What some people don’t realise is that just because you represent a marginalised group, doesn’t necessarily mean you exhibit inclusive behaviour.
2. Obviously, encouraging diversity and inclusion is a good thing from a moral point of view, but how important do you think it is from a pure business perspective?
It’s incredibly important in two dimensions, the first is the workforce and the second is from a consumer perspective. Coming out of this year with the pandemic and rise of racial injustice, people are increasingly questioning the work they are doing and want to contribute to a bigger purpose. This is especially true of the next generation of talent. People want to work for a company where their differences are celebrated, not tolerated.
From a consumer standpoint, people are demanding authenticity and the days where corporations were silent on social issues is no longer an option. Axios recently did a poll on consumer trust and the government ranked last. Which means that consumers are now looking to the private sector to fill that void. With the rise of social media, companies can no longer control their brand fully and one bad incident can go viral in seconds. There is also greater transparency into what consumers can see nowadays. What you say, needs to match what you do. You can’t say you support a particular marginalised group but then have your executives make contributions to political campaigns that support legislation against that group. Consumers are watching and voting with their dollars.
3. B2C is arguably leading the way in terms of creating campaigns that incorporate clear D&I messages. One only needs look at Nike’s adverts with Colin Kaepernick as an example. What do you think B2B can learn from B2C in this context?
The interesting thing is although we oftentimes look at B2C and B2B differently, at the end of the day they are both marketing and selling to people. In B2B, I think focusing more on inclusive marketing; representation of all forms of diversity in imagery and storytelling is a start. Working with creative agencies that share your values and also represent diversity. Not just in their work but with the teams they bring to the table. Being bold and a bit fearless when it comes to I&D is important. The Kapernick ad was a great risk for Nike but they stood for what they believed in even though they knew it would be unpopular with some of their customers. Knowing that mistakes will happen but inaction is not an option. It’s a journey and we can’t let fear of getting it wrong stop us from doing anything. Our employees, our clients and customers are demanding it in both B2C and B2B.
4. Something we see a lot of in June is companies changing their logos to incorporate the Pride flag. Of course, this is done with the intention of lending support to the cause, which is great. However, there are undoubtedly some companies out there that have no D&I initiatives, or no real desire to change, and are simply trying to ‘keep up appearances.’ What are your thoughts on this? Do you think it’s a good thing to do regardless, or should it only be done when the organisation in question is really sincere about improving the status quo?
Authenticity is key. As we just talked about, people have visibility into so much today. Transparency is paramount. It’s important for companies to celebrate “moments that matter” such as Pride, but the consumer and employee also want to know what you’re doing the other 11 months out of the year to support the cause. Writing a check to a charity and celebrating a month of the year is a start but if that’s all you plan to do, then it will be evident. I&D isn’t about just having an employee resource group or celebrating a moment in time. It’s something that needs to be looked at across the firm with a comprehensive I&D strategy. Everything from recruitment and retention, to inclusive marketing, learning and training, and things like inclusive product assortment for B2C are just a few examples.
With regard to the causes you support, it has to be linked to your brand purpose. If you truly know your brand purpose, that will guide your decisions.
5. Encouraging diversity and inclusivity within your organisation or team is one thing, but how do you think marketers can promote it on the outside? In other words, how can they encourage D&I through the work they do, as opposed to just the people they hire and how they operate internally?
I think we have to move away from the question of “Do you support I&D?” because let’s face it, most people will say yes. I think the better question is “How do you support I&D?”
To your point, this isn’t just about knowing your diversity numbers for your team. It’s an ever-evolving area that we all need to educate ourselves on continuously.
As marketers, we’re the storytellers and owners of the brand. So of course, imagery is a first step.. However, there is so much more to be done. Looking at how research is being done and ensuring that multiple groups are represented. For example, I added the LGBT consumer into our retail annual holiday survey. Also, understanding what your company is doing in this area. For example, are you selling I&D services, is there corporate research being done on I&D that you can leverage or help with, what charities does your organisation support? Are the agencies you’re using diverse? As marketers we are also educators and partners to the business so if some of this isn’t being done, it’s our job to bring both the moral and business case to our practitioners to get started.
I also don’t want to forget about the internal side as a marketer. Are you an inclusive leader? Are you aware of your own biases? Does your team feel safe to voice their opinions even if they know it may differ from yours? What environment and culture are you contributing to? This all contributes to how you’ll go to market externally in this area.
6. In your session at Ignite USA, you mentioned the importance of using an audit committee to encourage inclusivity. Can you explain how these committees work, what they do, and how our listeners can go about introducing one themselves?
I always think it’s important to have a second or third pair of eyes on everything you do. In terms of a formal audit committee, we are working through this at the moment. However, it doesn’t have to be a firm-wide committee. You can do this amongst your team by helping them understand their role in representing I&D. As a second step, one of the things I did was have an honest conversation with some of our creative agencies about how we define I&D. I made it clear that in every project they work on, I&D needs to be represented in the creative. It took a bit of time for them to understand it but now they know that they can’t show me creative without diversity included otherwise I will question it. Also, we have an I&D practice at Accenture that I use often in order to check the language and terminology we are using in our content. Remember, it’s not just imagery but language matters just as much.
7. In June, we were of course celebrating Pride! As a gay man, what challenges have you faced in your career relating to your orientation? Can you give us some insight as to what that’s like? Particularly from my point of view (as a straight man), it’s obviously not something I can directly relate to, so it would be great if you could share your experience perhaps so people such as myself can understand more.
As a gay man, I think a common thing I deal with is coming out. Most people assume that you come out once and it’s done. However, in the business world I have to come out every day because I am constantly working with new people internally and externally. The challenge I face is how to do it and always being mindful of if the person is supportive of my lifestyle. I’m not married or partnered so I can’t give the social cue of saying “my partner or boyfriend.” I also am mindful of how I bring it up and when is the right time. We as humans, naturally want to connect when we meet someone. However, blurting out that I am gay can be awkward. It can be exhausting.
It’s also not the only thing I want to be known for. The way I’ve been dealing with it recently is through emoji’s as crazy as that sounds. A good friend of mine developed this idea to describe yourself in 5 emoji’s. I do this whenever giving a presentation and also have it in my email signature. The Pride flag is one of my emoji’s so people know right away that I am gay or support the cause. It’s also one of four emoji’s so it gives me a chance to showcase other aspects of who I am.
8. For all of the senior B2B marketing leaders listening who want to focus more on D&I in their organisation, what advice do you have for them? Where should they start, or what should they avoid? Change starts at the top, right?
A great first-step is to get involved in an employee resource group if your firm has one. Being an ally is so important and most ERG’s need people with marketing skills to help the cause. It gives you the opportunity to meet people that are not like you. If your company doesn’t have ERG’s, you can do the same thing with a charitable organisation. I always say that if you support diversity, your personal and professional network should reflect that.
Also, know that it’s a journey and you’ll make mistakes and that’s okay. It’s about learning from those mistakes, owning them, and doing better the next time.
Be aware of your biases, we all have them. It’s about knowing what they are and working to mitigate them. In terms of what to avoid, don’t make assumptions and don’t expect other people to educate you on the issues. That’s your job and there are tons of ways to get that education today from books, the internet, associations, etc.
Yes, change starts at the top. We have a wonderful video at Accenture called Inclusion starts with I. This goes back to the point I made earlier; you don’t have to from a marginalised group to exhibit inclusive behaviour. Be the change and start today.
You can also DM him on LinkedIn here!
